The A2A Simulations Community

+1 for Brunner and buttkicker support. I use HaptiConnect for the buttkicker software in case that's important info.

And thank you to the A2A team for looking in to this!

OK I have good and bad news. The good news is Brunner responded. The bad new is they are about to take a two week vacation and said they'd send a unit out to us to test when they return....

Scott

Scott - A2A wrote: ↑

20 Jul 2023, 11:18

OK I have good and bad news. The good news is Brunner responded. The bad new is they are about to take a two week vacation and said they'd send a unit out to us to test when they return....

Scott

That's bad news?

You'll have much fun toying with the Brunner yoke/rudder! You know you've got clout when they start sending units, btw.

I can wait - it's going to be worth it.

Meantime - if you want to do any preliminary experimentation, give me a shout - anytime!

I've posted this on the Brunner forum, just to get a bit of a primer on the situation and the potential solutions:

"Yeah, this requires cooperation between A2A and Brunner. I heard from Scott Gentile at A2A that they have been in contact with Brunner and will get a unit to experiment with.

My take on this, given the fact that A2A has its own physics engine in Accusim running outside of the simulator, is that they need to send a "dud" of information to MSFS for the CLS2Sim software to read - a package of info to read, but not for the plane to act upon. This means that the Brunner software has the data to provide all the simulation that it does. However, this will only happen if this can be sent to MSFS without it messing up the physics of the lovely Accusim-plane(s).

An other option is for Brunner to supply an option inside of CLS2Sim for users to assign where the data comes from (and also what sort of "range" this data has, as I'm sure it's standardized in the sim, which is why we must switch the software between MSFS and XP for example). This could be handy with many other planes too, btw, as other complex planes have different ways of controlling the engine physics and/or the control surfaces. The trouble with the AirfoilLabs planes was caused by them doing "stuff" outside the XP-standard, trying to improve upon it, but at the same time making it difficult to have Brunner hardware be compatible. This was recently solved by an option in CLS2Sim to ignore various axis.

The latter is more interesting to me, as I also have problems with the brakes on the A2A Comanche using my CLS Mk2 Rudder. Same problem, I guess - data coming from outside the regular MSFS datarefs.

It can be solved, I'm absolutely confident about this. It's only a matter of all parties being open to trying some weird stuff to make it click into place.

I'll help with any testing, whenever needed.

Yours,

Erik H. Aasland"

Thank you Scott for the rapid response, and thank you Erik, for all the pertinent info you've provided. I guess we'll just have to be patient, ( "patience", a commonly shared virtue by all flight-simmers worldwide )
But MAN, does it hurt to hangar my beautiful, new Comanche...

Scott, Feel free to ignore this request if it's too much work. But since you're getting the Brunner yoke, it would be really cool if you could make an accurate preset for the Comanche and upload it on the profile cloud once it's fixed.

davidkarji wrote: ↑

20 Jul 2023, 18:29

Scott, Feel free to ignore this request if it's too much work. But since you're getting the Brunner yoke, it would be really cool if you could make an accurate preset for the Comanche and upload it on the profile cloud once it's fixed.

This is a good point, as we non-Comanche pilots can probably get rather close by "guess" and some various bits of information floating around there. But the experience that Scott and the other Comanche pilot that are here on the forum can be drawn upon to create THE profile. The one that has the exact weight of the elevator, the resistance of the ailerons, the heaviness of turning the nosewheel when sitting still VS rolling, the power needed to make the elevator be blown towards neutral by propwash, the speed at which the ailerons/rudder neutralize by airflow during takeoff.

So, yeah, getting set of Brunner gear "in house" will make for an interesting challenge for A2A both in terms of getting it working, but also making it feel right. Here's hoping!

Glad to hear brunner got back to A2A on this. I seem to remember some years back they did not want to work wirh developers and provide demo units.

So, I don't have my brunner setup at the moment because I am looking for a new mounting solution after going to tripple monitors.. what works and does not work right now for the brunner? Can we trim the plane? Does the brunner see aircraft speed so the controls stiffen?

I've been using my brunner and it feels good enough for me for now. Keep in mind nearly all of my time is in 172's, with only a few hours split across a warrior and an archer. Glad to hear A2A and Brunner working together, that just means its gonna be even more awesome! My only technical issue is with the AP and the brunner. Even with the AP options disabled in CLS2SIM, it seems its still "fighting" the AP somehow. I get the trim warning on the AP and if I try and trim the aircraft more, itll just end up disconnecting the AP just around where it starts to stop beeping.

Edit: I disabled the brunner pitch trim and I can now fly this without the AP trim beeping at me!

Very happy to see that this will be addressed. I probably will have to wait to get the Comanche at this point, since the brunner yoke is the only yoke i have.

I really hope that a2a will achieve proper trim behavior with it. Currently there is no perfect solution. There is a way for cls2sim to approximate the trim in the sim by taking the values from the in-sim trim and tries to combine it but this method is inaccurate. The other method is to use the "hardware trim" option which completely disconnects the trim from the sim and allows the yoke to be trimmed to the resistance. I use this method as it works best and is most realistic, but it means that the trim inside the sim won't move.

Here is some information regarding trim from Brunner that explains why this behavior is a bit awkward. https://brunner-innovation.swiss/CLS2Si ... nality.htm

This might be helpful, Scott!

After Update 1.1 there is a value for "Current Engine Thrust" in Brunners CLS2Sim Software. Before this value was "0". Now there is a value, but a strange one (see screenshot). This value normaly should be e.g. 0 to 100. Does anybody with Brunner Yoke has the same stranges values?

Regards,
Martin

We have to get this yoke and to work on compatibility. The thrust values it is reading is from MSFS, not Accu-Sim. And these miniscule thrust values you see are from a 1" MSFS propeller we installed so 3rd party programs could see an engine running.

Scott

Thanks for clarification Scott. I thought this should be the enginge thrust from Accu-Sim. But if those value would be numbers "from" - "to" accordingly to the engine thrust from Accu-Sim, the Yoke would work until you get it from Brunner and make a superrealistic solution/Profile.

Sorry for being impatient.

Martin

Can the Brunner products be used outside CLS2Sim?

It would be pretty sweet if A2A could make a small interface that gets the data directly from accusim rather than trying to make it work with CLS2Sim. This will make it compatible with any FFB system. Of course this would only work for accusim aircraft, but CLS2Sim is fine for other aircraft in both MSFS and X-Plane.

Scott - A2A wrote: ↑

20 Jul 2023, 11:18

OK I have good and bad news. The good news is Brunner responded. The bad new is they are about to take a two week vacation and said they'd send a unit out to us to test when they return....

Scott

Any news on Brunner support? Also very interesting to know - brunner only sent yoke or yoke and pedals? Which yoke - NG or MKII? They have a common principle, but different strengths and range of motion. Thank you !